tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post9056475086497924728..comments2024-03-22T02:37:10.429-05:00Comments on Political Friends: Senator Obama's "Hope"Andy Dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03659445086323172664noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-56747670210196182262008-03-27T14:39:00.000-05:002008-03-27T14:39:00.000-05:00Andy, you asked way earlier about Bush using God's...Andy, you asked way earlier about Bush using God's name in vain. <A HREF="http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_041012bsh.shtml" REL="nofollow">Here's</A> one example. From the article:<BR/><BR/><I>The statement of beliefs, called "Confessing Christ in a World of Violence,' criticizes Bush's use of scripture in a speech on the first anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Bush described the hope offered by America by saying, "... the light shines in the darkness. And the darkness will not overcome it.'<BR/><BR/>These words, used in the Bible, apply only to Jesus Christ and no political leader has the right to "twist them into the service of war," the confession says.<BR/><BR/>The statement's assertions include the claim that Jesus Christ knows no national boundaries, that Christians should have a strong presumption against war and that Christians should exercise humility, which would temper political disagreements.</I>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-54183379019084541642008-03-27T14:31:00.000-05:002008-03-27T14:31:00.000-05:00Hey Saint: you've got a fair point there. You wer...Hey Saint: you've got a fair point there. You weren't criticizing Wright. I should have noticed that. <BR/><BR/>You asked why I brought up Limbaugh and why I didn't put Limbaugh's "full quote" up there...<BR/><BR/>I brought up Limbaugh because I think you can make a pretty good argument that the guy earns his living by speaking "hate speech." Andy and others fans of Limbaugh now seem to be shocked--just shocked!--that somebody else would say something strong, angry, and possibly hateful. They're asking "why didn't Obama leave the church?" I'm calling that bluff. If they want to be held accountable for everything that Rush Limbaugh says, then God help them...<BR/><BR/>I'll put more of the quote up if you like. I was just looking for an example of Rush's hate speech--and found some that was (quite relevantly) about *race* and specifically about *Obama.*<BR/><BR/>Unless Andy is right now trying Rush's words out on some black people, it looks like he agrees that Rush's speech is hate speech.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-84953620427960146772008-03-27T08:07:00.000-05:002008-03-27T08:07:00.000-05:00Anon said "You write that because you listened to ...Anon said "You write that because you listened to the entirety of Jeremiah Wright's sermons before you criticized him, right? "<BR/><BR/>1) Actually, no, becuase I didn't write this refering to Wright<BR/><BR/>2) I was critical of someone in my post, but at no point was it Wright. <BR/><BR/>3) You left two points unanswered. Why didn't you put the entire quote from Rush, and why did you even bring him up to start with?<BR/><BR/>Of course, I don't really expect you to answer either question, seems to be your sop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-39422064350925623382008-03-27T06:37:00.000-05:002008-03-27T06:37:00.000-05:00It's not taking one or two points from Rev. Wright...It's not taking one or two points from Rev. Wrights speeches. These are direct quotes from sermon's his church sells on DVD. You can go buy a copy of the sermons and watch them in the comfort of your home.<BR/><BR/>Dean Snyder, like everyone on this site, is welcome to his opinion. However, the remarks of Rev. Wright are racist. Rev. Wright is entitled to his opinion on whether or not the US deserved 911, and whether or not the US government intentionally created the AIDS virus to kill black men. However, when a Presidential candidate has this same individual as a mentor and refers to him as being like a member of the family, it should raise legitimate concerns. These concerns only intensify when you began to look at the actions of Barack and Michelle Obama. Barack has agreed enough with Rev. Wright to give his church around $27,000 over the last couple of years. I think voters have a right to be concerned about this.Andy Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03659445086323172664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-77360211792036182832008-03-27T05:03:00.000-05:002008-03-27T05:03:00.000-05:00Andy, here is an excerpt from a huff Post article ...Andy, here is an excerpt from a huff Post article by Sam Stein that injects some level-headedness into this debate.<BR/>————————————<BR/>Last week, Dean Snyder, the senior minister at the Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington D.C. -- which the Clintons famously attended while in the White House -- released a little noticed statement offering a sympathetic defense of the totality of Wright's work.<BR/><BR/>"The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is an outstanding church leader whom I have heard speak a number of times," Snyder wrote. "He has served for decades as a profound voice for justice and inclusion in our society. To evaluate his dynamic ministry on the basis of two or three sound bites does a grave injustice to Dr. Wright, the members of his congregation, and the African-American church which has been the spiritual refuge of a people that has suffered from discrimination, disadvantage, and violence. Dr. Wright, a member of an integrated denomination, has been an agent of racial reconciliation while proclaiming perceptions and truths uncomfortable for some white people to hear. Those of us who are white Americans would do well to listen carefully to Dr. Wright rather than to use a few of his quotes to polarize."familymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00366661206547769309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-52422712359962277822008-03-26T13:12:00.000-05:002008-03-26T13:12:00.000-05:00Saint wrote: I am familiar with people taking the ...Saint wrote: <I>I am familiar with people taking the "juiciest" parts of quotes and using them to prove a point. Most times, if you look at the whole quote, in context of the converstion, it makes the "juice" have a different meaning.</I><BR/><BR/>You write that because you listened to the entirety of Jeremiah Wright's sermons before you criticized him, right? <BR/><BR/>...right?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-65632752443182580142008-03-26T10:09:00.000-05:002008-03-26T10:09:00.000-05:00Full quote: "renounce [being black], then! If it’s...Full quote: "renounce [being black], then! If it’s not something you want to be, if you didn’t decide it, renounce it, become white!"<BR/><BR/><BR/>This maybe a sentance, but it is not a full quote. The very first word is lower case, indicating something came before it in the sentence. Secondly, the word THEN indicates that something that came previously has been ommited from printing, by error or choice. <BR/><BR/>I do not know this quote, nor do I care because I don't listen to Rush. However, I am familiar with people taking the "juiciest" parts of quotes and using them to prove a point. Most times, if you look at the whole quote, in context of the converstion, it makes the "juice" have a different meaning. <BR/><BR/>But, what does this have to do with the Rev? Were him and Rush having a debate? A good debate techinique has always been to blind your audience to the point. Make them look at this here, becuase you don't have an answer for that over there. <BR/><BR/>If we're going to throw smoke screens, what about the lie CBS (of all people) just caught Hillary in? Read an article in the AP where Clinton said she went to Bosnia and they had to disembark the aircraft and run to the cars with their heads down because of all the sniper fire. CBS has footages, and shows the party leaving the aircraft and walking casually to the car, even taking time to talk to a small child.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-5443294126128508442008-03-26T09:04:00.000-05:002008-03-26T09:04:00.000-05:00What?! You haven't tried the experiment yet? C'mo...<I><B>What?! You haven't tried the experiment yet?</I></B> C'mon, we both know that telling black people to "renounce your race! Become white!" isn't hate speech, right? Go ahead, and try it out on some black men in a black neighborhood. They'll recognize you as a friend, I'm sure.<BR/><BR/>Rush spoke those saucy words of love for black people, appropriately enough, right around Valentine's Day, 2007. I think it was February 13.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-32019726648157155752008-03-26T08:36:00.000-05:002008-03-26T08:36:00.000-05:00You are going to have to help me here Anon. I hav...You are going to have to help me here Anon. I have been scouring Rush's site and I just can't find this quote. Can you provide a link to it, or at least a date he said it? Thanks.Andy Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03659445086323172664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-53117567080501138952008-03-25T13:02:00.000-05:002008-03-25T13:02:00.000-05:00well, and I can't count. There were only *two* se...well, and I can't count. There were only *two* sentence-ending punctuation marks in Rush's love-poetry to black people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-70957401481096213282008-03-25T13:00:00.000-05:002008-03-25T13:00:00.000-05:00Andy, there are three sentence-ending punctuation ...Andy, there are three sentence-ending punctuation marks in the quote copied from Rush Limbaugh's website. So that's at least clearly one sentence. We hardly need to argue over grammar, but, geez, do you have to contest everything, even when you're obviously wrong?<BR/><BR/>And *you* may not find anything hateful in telling a self-identified black man to "renounce your race! Become white!" But try a little experiment: take the MARTA to Five Points and shout that phrase at a fifteen or so black men waiting for the train or the bus. Then poll them to see if they think its hateful.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you're right that they'd understand completely and think you're a great guy. But, you know, you could do this just to prove your point...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-25153171362687297132008-03-25T06:51:00.000-05:002008-03-25T06:51:00.000-05:00First, that isn't a full quote. It is part of a s...First, that isn't a full quote. It is part of a sentence.<BR/><BR/>Second, I don't see anything "hateful" in that statement. <BR/><BR/>Finally, whether or not Obama is a hate monger is independent of Rush Limbaugh. The question is: How much of Rev. Wright's comments does Obama agree with?Andy Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03659445086323172664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-60009801704258149242008-03-24T13:50:00.000-05:002008-03-24T13:50:00.000-05:00Rush Limbaugh to Barack Obama:"Become white!"Full ...Rush Limbaugh to Barack Obama:<BR/><BR/>"Become white!"<BR/><BR/>Full quote: "renounce [being black], then! If it’s not something you want to be, if you didn’t decide it, renounce it, become white!"<BR/><BR/>Andy, I really can't relate to your judgement on this: Obama is the hate monger and Rush Limbaugh is the voice of reason?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-49990894655319930092008-03-24T05:37:00.000-05:002008-03-24T05:37:00.000-05:00Jon Stewart makes me laugh. Still did not answer ...Jon Stewart makes me laugh. <BR/>Still did not answer my question. Nor did the video make me change my mind on asking you to answer my question. Nor did the video show somebody doing the same thing as Rev. Wright. <BR/>Since my question seems hard for you to answer let me tell you what I think will happen. There is a public out cry for an apology. When given that person is told that it is not good enough. Big Al and Mr. Jackson get a little face time on the TV demand a boycott of something until that person steps down. If the person that said it is part of some important group, say John McCain, Senator McCain would most likely have to stop running for president and probably would be pressured very hard to resign as Senator.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15095193381922042863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-81165875773845513492008-03-21T08:10:00.000-05:002008-03-21T08:10:00.000-05:00Pack 04. Want something a little more "juicy" abo...Pack 04. Want something a little more "juicy" about McCain's campaign and racism? <A HREF="http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/09/jon-stewart-slams-mccains-racist-hypocritical-disgraceful-fl-campaign-chair/" REL="nofollow">Here's</A> more juice than you need!<BR/><BR/>Just click the video and let the truth make you free... er... sick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-80341299102927890672008-03-20T20:45:00.000-05:002008-03-20T20:45:00.000-05:00I read the article well sort of. It was all over ...I read the article well sort of. It was all over the place. Best I can tell it accuses McCain of paying a man, who is racist, "to provide political consulting services." He has not paid him to stand up and repeat hateful rhetoric. Yes the Obama campaign has not, as far as we know, paid Rev. Wright but I am sure Obama has given to the church an offering. The offering does go to a pastor's salary. So maybe I am splitting hairs with that but you are really stretching it telling me this man is doing the same thing as standing up and saying "black people are the reasons for all the problems." That is what I asked. What happens if some one does that?Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15095193381922042863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-66838491778578977512008-03-19T13:07:00.000-05:002008-03-19T13:07:00.000-05:00Pack04: that's not a hypothetical question. McCai...Pack04: that's not a hypothetical question. <BR/><BR/>McCain's campaign bankrolled a racist, trash-talking, David-Duke-supporting wacko. <A HREF="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/15/85831/2516/354/457290" REL="nofollow">Here's</A> the story.<BR/><BR/>What happened? You tell me...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-14664520239923134232008-03-19T08:59:00.000-05:002008-03-19T08:59:00.000-05:00I think it was one of the best speeches I've heard...I think it was one of the best speeches I've heard in a long time.familymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00366661206547769309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-537746323839826642008-03-19T08:18:00.000-05:002008-03-19T08:18:00.000-05:00Enough with this. I am going to get right to the ...Enough with this. I am going to get right to the point here:<BR/>If John McCain had a person in his life that made public comments about how black people are the reason to blame for the country being where it is at now, what would happen? <BR/>Honestly tell me what would happen?<BR/>I am looking for a short answer. Do not mention the bible or Obama's speech or try and tell me it is not the same thing. <BR/><BR/>What would happen?Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15095193381922042863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-61657446447735860802008-03-19T06:39:00.000-05:002008-03-19T06:39:00.000-05:00I saw the speech by Obama. It is a long speech an...I saw the speech by Obama. It is a long speech and I hope to do an "annotated version" on here. I think there are many things in it that trouble me, and I think this speech, and Rev. Wright are going to cost Obama the nomination.<BR/><BR/>As an aside, can you site an example of when George W. took the Lord's name in vain?Andy Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03659445086323172664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-21991417342452842482008-03-18T13:17:00.000-05:002008-03-18T13:17:00.000-05:00Obama just made a really interesting and strong sp...Obama just made a really interesting and strong speech on this today. The text is <A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.html?_r=1&oref=login" REL="nofollow">here</A>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-28610949356156508572008-03-18T13:07:00.000-05:002008-03-18T13:07:00.000-05:00Pack04:George W. Bush has used God's name in vain ...Pack04:<BR/><BR/>George W. Bush has used God's name in vain many times, including his speech announcing the bombardment of Iraq in which he conflated Jesus Christ and the United States. I haven't heard you complain about that...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-61559114353448687172008-03-18T05:49:00.000-05:002008-03-18T05:49:00.000-05:00This is bothersome on 2 fronts:one the religious f...This is bothersome on 2 fronts:<BR/>one the religious front:<BR/>A pastor breaking the 2nd commandment of not taking the Lords name in vain is odd. I did see what he said and I can see how some might argue he did not really take His name in vain but it still is a little too close to breaking the Law on that one for me.<BR/><BR/>two the political front:<BR/>In America if somebody closely associated with you said "No, no, no! Not God bless America! God d—m America!" no matter what the context was it use to be a bad thing. I know there is the first amendment and that the quote might be out of context but through out our history if you said something even close to that or somebody associated with you said that you would be run out of town especially if you were running for office. No excuses. Out. Done. Ali took a lot of heat for saying less. Obama is running for president, an office that represents the United States of America and it is unacceptable that this seems to be getting a free pass or excuses made for it. <BR/>People complain about Bush being religious or Romney was going to have a hard time because of his religion. Obama is part of a church who's leader preached hate and taught how it was everybody else's fault his followers were so bad off. There is no difference between this pastor and a white man wearing a white sheet. I am saying it is BULL SHIT that Obama is even still in the hunt to be president. I do not care if he has good politics or speaks well he is associated with an outspoken racist and he seems to be okay with that.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15095193381922042863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-7130917225601315382008-03-17T20:26:00.000-05:002008-03-17T20:26:00.000-05:00I read an article today that said this particular ...I read an article today that said this particular church is very important for those blacks interested in local politics. The impact of this is going to be very interesting. <BR/><BR/>Familyman, thanks for correcting my misspelling of expedient... I knew it didn't look right after I posted it! :)Kramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11853623365621178894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-35366449.post-41057954888837820092008-03-17T10:46:00.000-05:002008-03-17T10:46:00.000-05:00Family,I think your point goes to the heart of the...Family,<BR/><BR/>I think your point goes to the heart of the matter. If God is on the side of that litany of the oppressed that you list, what kind of God is this? It obviously is not a Zeus-type of God, one divine warlord fighting against human warlords.<BR/><BR/>You may know that one of traditional Christianity's claims was that the God of the Bible is known most profoundly in weakness, in non-violence, in solidarity with the oppressed--the opposite place we often expect to see "God". And that that kind of weakness is the true place of power. One example would be MLK. Weakness, love, courage = true power. <BR/><BR/>One eloquent--if academic--account of this way of knowing is Jurgen Moltmann's <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/Crucified-God-Foundation-Criticism-Christian/dp/0800628225" REL="nofollow">The Crucified God</A>. You could also look up "Liberation theology" and read around a bit too. Dorothy Day, St. Francis of Assisi, etc.<BR/><BR/>So this tradition would argue that God is on the side of all the people you listed. The "damning" question is this: where were God's supposed followers?<BR/><BR/>I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Just 'splainin how some of us see the world sometimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com